8th Feb 2009, 21:27

Toyota makes better vehicles than Ford, Chevy or Dodge. No amount of talk will change that.

Citing specific negative comments about Toyota and citing a few positive ones about some domestic doesn't change it either.

All automakers have mechanical issues. Toyota has less of them, by far, than any of the domestics, and that is documented.

Also, saying that you don't believe the credibility of the source of that information doesn't change it either. In the auto industry, there are publications that are at the forefront and ARE the experts... Consumer Reports, Motor Trend, Car and Driver, etc. ALL of them rate Japanese vehicles as still the most reliable. If you don't believe it, it still doesn't change that fact. Not to mention the real world experience that backs it up.

As always, this comment will be followed by some other comment (impossible to prove) that says somebody had a faulty Toyota and a domestic that lasted forever. SO what. Getting back to the facts, Toyota's, along with Honda's, have been rated as the most reliable, highest quality vehicles on the road, as well as being rated as the vehicles most likely to get to and over 200,000 miles. Also a fact, from the experts.

Those of us NOT blinded by Big 3 advertising or in denial of the truth already know that. You might well HAVE had a Toyota die early and ALSO had a Ford that lasted to 200,000 miles. If so, that is a rare exception to the norm. Toyota still makes better vehicles, and, odds are good that if you buy one, it'll get a lot more miles than any domestic. That's just the way it is, because they're designed and built better.

So, keep talking about all of these 'bad' Toyota's. It's not going to change the fact that I, as well as practically every other Toyota owner I ever knew, were thrilled after making the switch from a crappy domestic. The Big 3 simply cannot compare, and at this point, are lucky to even be in business.

I'm actually glad to see that Ford at least is making some strides in a positive direction and building better cars. Maybe if they keep it up, they'll do what Toyota has been doing for decades: making automobiles that last and gaining a reputation for that. Until then, I'll obviously buy what I know is best; Toyota and Honda.

8th Feb 2009, 23:20

"Remember, however, that we live in a country that is rife with legends (Bigfoot, UFO's, Japanese cars being better) that are not amenable to logic or rational thinking. When the scientific method can't validate these myths, the "true believers" start chanting "Consumer Reports... High sales... My uncle Ichabod owns a 7,000,000 mile Tacoma...""

So..."Consumer Reports" and high sales serve as a response to Bigfoot and UFOs huh? :)

Actually I've spent a fair amount of "ink" pointing out that CR and other organizations have shown that the reliability of some models and years of American trucks are on a par with or better than any of their Japanese counterparts as far as reliability goes.

Some might be chanting, but I'm just sitting here typing quietly pondering patriotic purchasing vs. purchasing strictly on the merits of the product. I've done my fair share of both. I've owned both Japanese and American cars. I've owned many American made, German made, Japanese made, and Chinese made products. I prefer to buy American and often will pay more to do it -- as long as the USA made product is better. But I won't tell you what to do.

Maybe I'm just not enough of a "true believer" to shout along with either of the types of blind followers represented here on this thread.

"The playing rules change with each game."

Or perhaps with each person. You aren't only talking to one other person on this forum. To one, high Japanese sales is proof of their superiority. To another, high domestic sales is meaningless. It's only a double standard if the same person believes both.

9th Feb 2009, 11:38

The best selling beer in the world is Bud light. Never mind that it's pretty much watered-down tasteless swill. I can almost bet it's the same beer the guys making claims that their Fords and Chevys are better than Toyotas drink. This thread is hilarious. Sure... Fords are wayyyy better than Toyotas.

Guess what? The world knows the truth, knows what a better product is when they see it, and hence the reason Toyota is now the no.1 car maker with a reputation based on reliability and not planned obsolescence.

9th Feb 2009, 12:18

THANK GOD there is at least ONE other patriotic American out there!!! THANK YOU!!! I've been absolutely APPALLED at the "I don't care if the country goes bankrupt, I'm buying from FOREIGN COMPANIES" response from so many import owners. Even if the quality was better (it ISN'T) I'd still prefer to help my own fellow citizens by supporting American industry. We've started a "Buy American" campaign and are talking to import owners about trading up to a domestic. We've had quite a bit of success, especially with people trading Camrys for Fusions.

Ford's high ratings are hard to dismiss, even for die-hard anti-American industry folks.

9th Feb 2009, 17:08

I agree that if the best-selling beer in the world is swill, it proves that the best-selling brand isn't always the best. And how does that help your argument that Toyota must better because it sells more vehicles?

Personally, I prefer a nice, cold Dos Equiis or Negra Modelo for beer, or a rich merlot. I still say my Fords and Dodges have been better than any foreign car I've ever encountered. Sorry, your attempt at associating Fords with beer-swilling rednecks failed.

9th Feb 2009, 20:26

You deny that Toyota and Honda's reputation for quality was earned, ignore the fact that all of these corporations are very global, ignore the fact that many of your best loved models are made outside of the country with some percentage of USA made componentry, and you seem to deny any benefit to our country that foreign based companies have by building their vehicles here. These are all MITIGATING factors that make the decision much less of the patriotic slam-dunk affair that you imagine all solid Americans should make it.

I, like you, feel that the overall net affect is beneficial (to America) when someone buys American -- even taking the above factors into account. But I'm not going to declare that those who purchase foreign vehicles are unpatriotic, especially if they do so because the last several domestics they owned nearly bankrupted them (it does happen sometimes).

Thankfully, domestic manufacturers are improving their products enough so that this conflict may soon be as irrelevant as you claim it already is. But until that happens, I'd say to you that patriotism shouldn't require living in a state of denial. You deny or ignore all of the points above, then add to them by making the claim that virtually all consumer agencies that compile data are biased, wrong, brainwashed, and apparently un-American. And you add this primarily because you don't like the conclusions derived from their research -- not because you have any evidence of wrongdoing.

More than likely all of the vehicles I buy from here on WILL be domestic. But I will do it because I DO think there is a net benefit to America. I DO think the domestics are getting better. I AM concerned about what the failure of these companies would do to this country. So I WILL find those products made by American companies that are highly rated and serve whatever need I'm purchasing them for.

But I WON'T stand up on my soapbox and make claims about people I don't know; Whose lives are a complete mystery to me; Whose experiences are different from mine; And whose decisions are thus affected in such a way as to make them do something I won't. They may indeed be patriotic AND drive a Toyota... if for no other reason than that they lack your omniscience.