13th Feb 2009, 16:37
11:09 I have done a lot of research. A lot more than you. Your comment about domestics passing imports in quality and reliability is completely baseless and incorrect. You can't back it up with a single fact. Because... all the experts still rate Toyota and Honda on top.
I don't care what you or anybody else thinks in the backbone of the country's economy -- I don't buy any type of sub-par product no matter what product it is. Which means I'm certainly not buying a Chevy or a Ford when I can buy a Toyota.
13th Feb 2009, 20:23
Not that patriotism has any bearing at all on vehicle purchase, but what the hell. Since we're talking about it, here's my take on it: the Big 3 are an embarrassment to automobiles and an embarrassment to any 'patriotic' American. If they were truly concerned about keeping Americans buying American vehicles, they'd have built better ones and not been outclassed by foreign companies.
Ford and GM deserve their due credit, for being the pioneers in the automotive industry.. they did a lot of things first. However, if I'm having brain surgery tomorrow, I don't want the first guy to do it operating on me, I want the best one. Toyota and Honda have taken everything that the Big 3 have done and improved drastically on it, while GM, Ford, and Dodge all got lazy, started cutting corners long ago and building cheaply made, shoddy cars and trucks. That's the reason Toyota and Honda have grown to such proportions in the United States. And it's also the reason that GM, Ford, and Dodge are lucky to be in business today - only due to government choosing to make the taxpayers keep them alive a little longer.
Make no mistake, these aren't my opinions. Anybody who watched them beg the congressional committee for money heard Rick Wagoner say that GM would be bankrupt by this PAST new year if they weren't given money. All of the domestic fans can rant and rave if they like, it makes no difference to a proud Toyota and Honda owner. The companies I choose to buy from have a reputation for quality, unlike Ford, GM, or Dodge.
You can pretend their 'near death experience' was simply mismanagement of money if you like, the world knows the truth: Toyota and Honda may suffer sales lapses too in a bad economy, but they're doing fine BECAUSE, even in tough times, people buy what they know is a quality product, which leaves the Big 3 out of the picture. If and when they ever get serious about building something worth buying, I'll look at them again when I buy. It hasn't happened yet.
13th Feb 2009, 21:36
I don't find this comment "ugly" at all. It's basically true (except maybe the "zillion kids"), and not necessarily offensive. People generally ARE grouped rigidly into pretty tight demographic groups. As a former car salesman, however, I was taught NEVER to categorize people. I was taught to steer the potential buyer to another vehicle ONLY if it appeared that they could not AFFORD what they were looking at. If I walked onto a dealer's lot to look at a Mustang and was told it might be better if I looked at a Fusion, I would tell the salesman where to stick it and leave.
13th Feb 2009, 21:40
"But they (young people) do buy Acuras, Lexus, Audis, Honda Civics, and Scions."
When I read that I thought Lexus didn't sound right, but I thought of course the Honda Civic was correct. So I did some searching on the web.
Average age of Lexus buyer 61
Average age of Buick buyer 62
Average age of Toyota Avalon buyer 61
Average age of Audi Buyer 48
Average age of BMW Buyer 48
Average age of Honda Civic buyer 51.
Wow, the last one was a shocker to me. There are quite a few articles about it on the web. What I really feel embarrassed about is that is my sister-in-law age 56 just bought a Honda Civic, and now that I think about it, just about everyone I know that has bought a new one is older.
I'm not sure how that one slipped by me, except now maybe I am getting old enough that everyone below the age of 40 looks like a youngster to me. Or maybe it is because Civics are a common first car for a young person as a hand me down from Mom and Dad. But now that I think about it, all those young people with the hand me downs tell me they are going to buy something completely different once they have the money.
14th Feb 2009, 04:07
I wonder if you took a consensus at any of the 3 boat ramps at Lake Havasu, Az. how much if any of the above comment is remotely accurate?
I am personally in agreement with "honkin trucks" that are small and large with ridiculous body lifts, 36" tires and tacky flash and trim. I have actually removed emblems for cleaner lines. I do believe in performance upgrades hidden under the hood.
Sacrificing ride and handling quality with the big lifts and tires is a waste. I had gone through that phase with 1 full size long ago and found a uninterrupted 8 foot bed, the lower the height the better, with nice street tires is the nicest trucks.
If you drive short distances or are caught up in adding tacky trim and lifts, that's your prerogative and your money. I am just giving my own observation on what makes a nice full size truck to drive distances with and without tow loads.
As far as conservative who drives small Toyotas.... perhaps families that cannot afford high end beer, have young families, elderly Camry owners that maybe shop frequently at Walmart. Sounds ugly but my observation is a more likely scenario. Walmarts sales volume was also up last year likely from the economy oriented folk shopping there.
16th Feb 2009, 11:56
Driving sensible cars or shopping where prices are best does not necessarily reflect any particular deomgraphic or economic status. I live in a very upscale neighborhood and work with extremely wealthy clients. I often encounter my wealthy clients in the aisles of Wal-Mart (and did well BEFORE the economic crisis hit). Most truly savvy wealthy people seek out the best prices on things. Two of my favorite clients live in homes costing well over a million dollars and both drive Hyundais. While having a conference with one of our very wealthiest clients, he placed his keys on the table as we were talking. I noticed the Ford (NOT Lincoln) blue oval on his key and asked what he drove. "A Ford F-150" was his reply. Finally, when I was lunching with one of my best friends, who is an entertainer and performs all over the world, he mentioned that he planned to purchase a yacht and a new car. When I asked what kind of car, he replied "A Hyundai Tucson".
Not all wealthy people have the desire to spend lots of money simply to impress others. Many regard needless spending as silly. I am told that one of America's wealthiest men lives in the same modest home he has lived in for decades.
It is becoming harder to "pigeon-hole" people based on their appearance, profession or income level. The U.S. is a very diverse country. The teenager delivering pizza to us drives a Mercedes CLK. The world-traveling heart specialist down the street drives an F-150.
13th Feb 2009, 14:53
11:07 far off topic yet again. If you look at someone and can determine who and what they buy, it's a poor excuse for clearly asking what they are actually looking for.
A poor guy in a suit may have just left a funeral and may be a Corolla candidate. I could have been out cleaning my garage and bought a $60,000 sports car. I know of a saleman that sold yachts that ran over to the guy in the suit and had a very minor sale, while at the same moment a very plainly dressed gentleman bought a large yacht from another. As far as appearances he was a pauper.
Some of the Lexus models are not cheap; are they really necessary? Find a Toyota pickup that can drop a Fountain powerboat at the ramp. It's not excessive when you have a clear application and vehicle to address your requirements. If you do not own a late model full size again and again the small car, small truck may be inescapable to comprehend.
I would rather see each vehicle be compared to best applications and testing both import and domestics. I did and bought without worrying over brand loyalty... the best got my order.