26th Jan 2007, 09:57
No, it's a combination of cheaper pricing (I've seen loaded F-150's with $10K off list) and more dealers (there are many that sell only Ford trucks vs. Toyota sells all in one place).
The new Tundra will be the first serious competition for the domestics, although from the preliminary reviews I've read it's inline with the domestics vs. being ahead. If they can get the quality right (unlike the Titan) they will have a winner. Otherwise, it will simply be an also ran.
26th Jan 2007, 12:13
9:57...No wonder the cost per mile to own overall is better with F Series... more power, towing, value overall. I do not know how the morale is at any plant and frankly do not care. My morale was not high after test driving a Tundra and ultimately did not buy one. I doubt the millions that are on the road keep buying them because people take other job responsibilities, what their morale is etc. Toyota is just not strong with trucks like the domestics.
26th Jan 2007, 12:37
As far as the financial situation goes at Ford, as well as GM and Daimler-Chrysler, do a Google search for "12,000 Paid not to work". You will see why the domestics are hurting. The union labor costs are killing them. The good news is that the contract from the 80's expires this year. Toyota and Honda are not bogged down with the jobs bank program. So, the changes that will come this year will greatly even out the playing field as far as labor costs go.
26th Jan 2007, 14:10
12:37 said it all:...the domestics are hurting,... Toyota and Honda are not bogged down. I rest my case.
26th Jan 2007, 15:35
That is only an excuse. The marketshare, which is 100% independent of labor costs, is based on what the public WANTS, and the public does not want the domestic stuff, especially since the only thing that sells American cars is discounting.
If the Big Three actually decide to put quality in their vehicles, something which has never happened since the accountants took over, maybe they will have a fighting chance.
26th Jan 2007, 15:38
I see, so your theory is a company can make a great product whether the people making it are happy or not.
Sorry, but that's simply not the case. Read "Rivethead", a book written by a GM assembly line worker, to find out how morale affects quality.
Better yet, simply go out to a restaurant and see what service you get from a waiter/waitress that doesn't like his/her job.
26th Jan 2007, 15:54
Well, today, for the SECOND time, in my older, but flawless Toyota, I drove my buddy to the Dodge dealership to pick up his brand new '07 Dodge truck. Seems it had to be recalled for defective airbags AND defective seat belts. That's a lovely combination, don't you guys think? You crash, and not only does the seat belt fail, but the airbag doesn't go off! This must be another "minor" Big 3 recall issue. Hell, I can't think of a worse combination of screw-ups than that! I think I'll stick with my safe and reliable Toyota.
26th Jan 2007, 16:01
I'm also anxiously awaiting the "evidence" to support comment 14:40 (but not holding my breath because there IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT...PERIOD). Also, I can't fathom why commenter 14:32 keeps citing ROLLOVER accidents when the comment he keeps referring back to was a head-on collision and NOT a rollover. That website is totally irrelevant to any accident involving a head-on collision with a smaller vehicle. It means absolutely ZERO in this discussion.
26th Jan 2007, 17:24
8:51...the news that I just read was that Ford sales were impacted by the fear of $3.00 a gallon fuel cost last year and many fled to smaller imports. Ford expects to be back again by 2009. I would like to read the poor quality news reports that you indicate as a cause. Or is that a personal opinion that you need to clarify. What newspaper and what date? Still the same Ford F Series are the number seller in the U.S.A.
26th Jan 2007, 17:39
15:54 if hes driving a 2007 Ram...I'll take that over your old Toyota. I've spent a good bit of my spare time sitting in new import waiting lounges the past few years myself. Its comfortable and they did however give me free Snapples to drink while I waited.
26th Jan 2007, 18:27
As has been mentioned MANY times, head on collisions are VERY rare. EVERY organization that tracks accident statistics will confirm that. The most common accident are frontal offset, the type in which an SUV or pickup will lose out to even a compact car - and most likely will encounter roll over dangers. Once again, one research study as cited in BusinessWeek in 2002 stated you are 61% more likely to die in a Ford Explorer than a Camry. And pickups fare worse because of their light rears which translate into poor handling in any accident.
But even if head on collisions were as common as you think, larger vehicles are still useless compared to the millions of tractor trailers on the road, not to mention trains. So you lose your argument either way.
26th Jan 2007, 18:36
Actually Edmunds.com BUYS the vehicles they test, unless the company loans one to them. The Tundra was loaned to them, and they bought the Silverado. And no, the companies do not decide what to send them, they fill out applications and specify what exactly they want sent to them.
Because of this, Edmunds did not order comparably equipped trucks.
26th Jan 2007, 20:11
Gee, I guess commenter 15:54 somehow MISSED all the news about his beloved Toyotas being recalled for defective air bags, defective steering and accelerators that stick on the floor. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!!
26th Jan 2007, 20:11
Here's a funny follow up about my buddy with the Dodge that I helped earlier: I JUST left his house, and he was talking about wishing he had bought a Toyota, as I suggested. Now he knows I was right. Just so happened, his next door neighbor, who HAPPENS to be an auto mechanic, came over and joined the discussion. He said if he could drive anything he wanted, he would take a Tacoma, because, (his words), "they just don't break". I would bet money that my buddy's next truck will be a Toyota, as he has seen the light now! And to get back to the long forgotten point of this thread, the Tundra is the best truck in it's class by a big margin.
27th Jan 2007, 03:29
To 1/26 15:54 and 20:11.
I checked on the NHTSA web site and saw no such recalls on an 07 Dodge truck, like you stated. Did you make up this story?
27th Jan 2007, 05:02
20:11 go over to Edmunds and see... a lot of research and statistics. Do a cross comparison. I appreciate my own buddies advice as well. But its my money I am spending $30,000 plus and I need a lot more than a well meaning friend.
Maybe your buddy meaunt the small Tacoma... anyone do your homework. True Cost per Ownership... is what I mainly base my decison upon.
27th Jan 2007, 06:13
20:11...I also have a relative that owns a repair shop. He drives former customers cars that needed extensive repairs or ones he buys used. I have yet to see him buy new rapidly depreciating vehicles that he can pick up used cheap. As soon as he fixes one he drives it a month or so and sells for another. I have found a mechanic can give you advice on new vehicles, but usually they are driving otherwise.
26th Jan 2007, 08:56
Wow, you've convinced me. Next time my wife falls asleep at the wheel I'll make sure the vehicle she's driving and the one she rams into are both domestics! Thanks for the advice.