2nd Feb 2007, 13:14

I see, so when it won Truck of the Year the judges were drunk? Please.

The definition of "truck" has changed over the years and I guarantee you that someone applying the 1975 definition (or even 1985) would say that NONE of the "trucks" made today, foreign or domestic, qualify.

2nd Feb 2007, 13:41

Hey, just got on the Ford F-150 site to find out what constitutes a "real truck".

Can someone please explain to me why you need the following (as listed on the site) to haul wood, rocks, and all the other stuff you people claim only domestic trucks can do:

- Black leather-trimmed captain's chairs with unique insert, red stitching, manual driver and passenger lumbar, flow-through floor console and floor shifter.

- Electronic automatic temperature control (EATC)

- Rear Seat DVD Entertainment System.

- Castaño leather-wrapped steering wheel.

- Power adjustable pedals.

- Pueblo Gold front bumper and rear step bumper (with two-tone paint)

- Chrome twin-tip exhaust.

- Power moonroof including overhead mini-console without storage.

Just curious how many F-150 owners are going to risk damaging their Castano leather-wrapped steering wheel or their Pueblo Gold front bumper by doing the things you people claim these trucks are doing.

2nd Feb 2007, 15:13

Whats this "Toyota wins again" Who cares? Are they buying a vehicle for you? Is it important to you to be seen or something? I just don't get it. Actually domestics are not buying you a free car either. Whoopee I am driving an unpopular Tundra truck because the Camry wins again in slot 3. And I get to pay 100% for my vehicle yes the mfr. won again. But its all my money. I personally threw the nameplates out the window and shopped for the best driving vehicle. Not by price, but by features, benefits, performance, handling, no compromises. It meaunt a new domestic full size. To me quality is not only reflected in true cost to own, but more importantly quality of life. I am not going to drive a bland toaster watching my fuel gauge and just feeling relief the key turned and it fired over. I haven't had any problems and if I do I'll drive a loaner vehicle provided the first 100,000 miles. I won by not buying a Tundra... its OK, but I love my new Silverado better.

2nd Feb 2007, 15:26

It's kind of interesting that the SAME Car and Driver magazine that is now putting Toyotas in its "10 Best" list put the Ford Focus (Yes, the one Toyota fans CONTINUALLY bash) in it's SAME "10 Best" list several years running.

2nd Feb 2007, 16:55

It really doesn't matter. The Tundra will never be used as a hard-core work machine so these people will never know the difference. The domestic trucks were invented for work, close to 100 years ago, so I think they know what to do to them in order to make them do work.

If you're going to buy a Tundra just to drive to work, why not buy a Camry?

Maybe Ford got worried with the new Tundra because finally Toyota beefed up their structure to that of Fords. (You know, those front-controls arms, frame rails, leaf springs, axles, and other hidden goodies you people never bother to look at.) Since Toyota's business structure is supported by a big steamin' load of hype, that gives them the advantage against Ford if they are able to finally build as capable of a vehicle.

Oh yeah, and to that one statement: "I see, and the F-150 and its stablemates get Prius mileage, right?"

No, they don't get Prius mileage neither does the Tundra. Isn't it funny how Toyota looks like it is such a contributor to a better environment with its death-trap mobile cars when the company offers just as many gas guzzlers as Ford, Chevy, and Dodge? If you will look at some of these Tundra reviews, you will see that people are surprised at the not-so-great gas mileage they get (even if they like the truck).

So I would also say that a Tundra also doesn't get Prius mileage either. Right?

Here, I'll reverse it for you:

"I see, and the Tundra and its stablemates get Aveo mileage, right?"

Now wasn't that fun?

2nd Feb 2007, 17:27

Really? Which Car and Driver is this? Not the one I subscribe to, the magazine that KNOWS that the American Focus is not only a horrible car, it's also a design that is TEN years old WITHOUT a change. The European Focus is the only one that is remarkably interesting, and we don't get that here.

Of course it's funny, Ford still charges an outrageous price for 10 year old technology. If the car was $7000 it would make more sense.

2nd Feb 2007, 17:30

Loaner vehicle the first 100K miles? Yeah, right, GM is really going to step up to the plate on that one.

Let's put it this way. Your Silverado is going to be in the shop with all the other Silverados in the shop. That means your chance of getting a loaner vehicle (assuming your dealership is still in business in a few years) is nil.

2nd Feb 2007, 22:37

Sorry, but the Tundra IS still superior because the sky is blue and grass is green. That's all there is to it. Just stating the facts. I shouldn't have to argue that.

3rd Feb 2007, 10:32

17:30...my 2004 Silverado was purchased new... now with 82,000 miles driven daily... so far no time in shop or loaner vehicle. Has had brakes and tires. My friends 2007 Silverado...2 oil changes. There was a free courtesy shuttle to and from work no loaner vehicle required there either. By the way why is there Focus/Camry comments on a truck review? I test drove a Tundra also and I can see why they sell more cars. The Silverado is still way superior in my opinion. I know potential Tundra buyers could probably do just as well with cars, but not full size domestic truck owners.

3rd Feb 2007, 11:37

Commenter 17:27 has obviously not been subscribing to Car and Driver for very long. Check back issues from the early 2000's. The Focus most definitely WAS in the "10 Best list". The Same Car and Driver also rated the "divine" Camry DEAD LAST in a comparison test of 4 boring sedans last year, behind the Hyundai Sonata, Ford Fusion and Honda Accord. Check it out.

3rd Feb 2007, 12:34

There's no doubt that there are plenty of people who buy domestic trucks to just drive and feel big. Sure, I bet maybe half of the F-150 sales are for that purpose. Let me reverse this for you, it's not that all of the domestic trucks are bought for doing work, it's that when any real work is being done, it's being done with a domestic truck. If any truck is just being driven on the road, then a Tundra will blend in with the Silverado's, F-150's, and Ram's just fine. It's when the work is being done when I see the difference. When I do see that rare occurence of a Tundra doing work, it performs poorly. Any truck that squats with 500lbs of cargo in the back is not very useful for anything, but driving.

Yes, the domestics have some over-priced domestic versions of trucks where they "gussy" them up to make them fancy. That, I agree, is silly and those versions of vehicles are not work vehicles. An example would be the Lincoln Mark LT and the Cadillac Escelade (with the small bed). These vehicles are expensive, too expensive to do any work. People who use F-150's for work will buy a mid-level or lower packaged truck. They wouldn't get the leather seats or DVD, but they might like powers windows and AC. Personally, I'd prefer vinyl seats and floors. Save money and use a garden hose to clean out the vehicle.