12th Dec 2008, 11:22

I just can't help but feel that its rather hilarious that almost every single Tundra review- especially the positive ones- are commented on by a pro-Ford person claiming that "you're wrong because I drive a F-150."

If those of you who drive Fords really and truly think Toyotas are inferior products, then you wouldn't nor should care that someone who bought one likes it. But the fact that all Tundra reviews are littered with angry anti-import responses tells a different story.

12th Dec 2008, 19:38

So it makes one wonder why Toyota Tundra has not outsold the Ford F-150 the number one selling vehicle for over 23 years in America by over 7 to 1 by the import fanatic... but if you think it about it, the Ford sets an extremely high benchmark for others to strive to achieve. If you can afford an F-250 3/4 ton diesel full size pickup, you set the bar even higher. There isn't any Tundra even in the same league.

12th Dec 2008, 23:10

A great deal of the anger expressed by domestic car owners, car enthusiasts and knowledgeable mechanics on these reviews is due to the fact that many (millions) of our citizens depend on the domestic auto industry for their incomes. To attack such a large number of our citizens and wish for the destruction of their lives is enough to anger many Americans.

In addition, we see domestic vehicles referred to as "crap" without so much as one shred of evidence to prove that they are any less reliable than any Japanese vehicle. We see challenge after challenge after challenge to back up such harsh and baseless statements with PROOF, and all we see in response is opinion and misinformation.

We see statements that domestics require "3 or 4 engines or transmissions in 60,000 miles" right below comments from domestic owners (like myself) who have put over 300,000 miles on domestics with NO engine or transmission replacements, or even major repairs.

We see comments about how "reliable" Japanese vehicles are right below comments from people (like myself) who have OWNED AND DRIVEN Japanese vehicles and found them anything BUT reliable. If the people trashing domestics had actually DRIVEN one, there might be some credence given to their views, but when someone who has never owned, driven, or even SAT IN a domestic vehicle takes it upon himself to pass judgement upon ALL domestics based on Honda and Toyota ad claims, then, YES, we WILL continue to defend our vehicles.

13th Dec 2008, 16:27

Ford sales are weathering the economic storm BETTER than Toyota, Honda and Nissan (actually ALL Japanese makes except Subaru), and the Tundra sales have REALLY tanked. I'd estimate the margin between F-150's and Tundras is now closer to 10 to 1. I saw 2 new F-150's with drive-out tags on a 5-mile drive just now. I haven't seen a new Tundra in weeks.

14th Dec 2008, 13:49

Like I said I love fun with stats, but what I left out was my love affair with facts, so lets look at some of those.

"It IS the F-150 (not the entire F-series) that is (and has been for THREE DECADES) the world's best selling truck. It is the F-150, not the entire F-series line, that has bested the rather pathetic Tundra 7 to 1 in sales."

Sorry wrong once again, or twice in this statement by you. It is the Ford F-Series not just the F-150 sales numbers that is the US best selling vehicle. Please notice the US part not the World best selling, more on the 7 to 1 later on.

"I'd estimate the margin between F-150's and Tundras is now closer to 10 to 1. I saw 2 new F-150's with drive-out tags on a 5-mile drive just now. I haven't seen a new Tundra in weeks"

And you would estimate way off.

"2007 Tundra sales volume were 196,555. Ford F-150 were 690,589 in 2007. There are those that also buy F-250 models that I would not consider commercial customers that have a lot of good applications for 3/4 ton pickups."

Buy using your numbers it is only a 3.5 to 1 sales difference, even though those numbers include the F-250. Ford never releases numbers that say how many of the F-150's or F-250's make up the sales numbers of the F-Series. Now here are the numbers through the 3rd quarter and last years numbers from 2007.

Sep 08 Sep 07 +/-% YTD 08 YTD 07 +/-%

F-Series 32,727 56,065 -41.6 392,698 537,211 -26.9

Silverado 50,428 52,480 -3.9 370,502 477,859 -22.5

Ram 20,812 30,100 -31.0 196,058 276,978 -29.0

Sierra 18,744 18,445 1.6 133,811 157,204 -14.9

Tundra 7,696 19,571 -59.0 115,026 144,480 -20.4

Titan 2,872 5,193 -44.7 29,900 50,959 -41.3

Mark LT 383 795 -51.8 3,659 6,653 -45.0.

So that is only a 3.4 to 1 difference for this year. Now let's look at a direct comparison. I own a 2003 Tundra Limited with 56K miles and no problems and still on the road. A good buddy had a 2004 F-150 that is now completely gone along with most of his house and possessions, plus he is in the middle of a lawsuit to have Ford pay for his house, because it caused the fire. I think I will keep my Tundra and house.

14th Dec 2008, 21:33

"It IS the F-150 (not the entire F-series) that is (and has been for THREE DECADES) the world's best selling truck. It is the F-150, not the entire F-series line, that has bested the rather pathetic Tundra 7 to 1 in sales."

The above statement is correct. Check the facts.

15th Dec 2008, 15:51

13:49... if your house burns and you are a homeowner, you put a claim in to your own homeowners insurance. If you have a loan it's required. Then you also have vehicle insurance. I was once told to replace a wood floor to a poured floor in a 2 car garage, and it's wise to ask your agent questions. I did and insurance was effective. I personally do not like Tundras and would take a new full size domestic by the way.

16th Dec 2008, 22:10

21:33 The following statement is also true, check the facts: Toyota is and has been, for a couple of decades, rated higher in quality than Ford ever was.

Here's another fact: Ford is involved in more lawsuits for (dangerously) faulty vehicles than anybody else.

YOU might not like the Tundra. That doesn't change the fact that Ford is being sued for vehicles randomly catching on fire hours after being driven. You know, one would think that a company that's been around for over 100 years would have figured out how to build something that definitely doesn't burn your house down, spit spark plugs right out of the head (I've seen this personally) or have any of the many other safety issues that they have.

It's pretty sad that Toyota came into the states in the 70's and embarrassed the domestics from day one.

I'd like to buy 'American', so to speak. Until they make something that is on par with a Toyota, and proves itself over the decades like the Camry, Corolla, Tercel, Toyota Truck... all of them in fact; I'll stick to what's obviously the right choice. A Toyota or a Honda.

I really get a kick out of people that think that there is no difference in how a GM or Ford engine is built as compared to a Honda engine.

Only now (after falling into bankruptcy and disgrace) is GM and Ford willing to TRY to make cars with the kind of gas mileage that Toyota's and Honda's got 25 years ago. It's truly laughable. "But, Ford's are as good!". Sure. That's why Toyota, and especially their Lexus division has stomped them for 14 consecutive years, taking top quality honors every time. "Toyota's aren't as good!".

OK. That's why they hold their value much better than a cheap, disposable domestic. Everyone knows they're worth nothing after 100,000 miles, if they make it that far without blowing up. A Honda or Toyota is just nicely broken in at 100,000 miles. It's a quality machine designed for a much longer lifespan than that.

Here's the fact: the Big 3 build crap. Period. They are improving. Because they have to. If they'd have made the choice a long time ago to build something half as good as a Toyota, Toyota would never have grown as they have while the Big 3 just crumble. Too little too late.