5th Apr 2011, 11:41

"The Focus set a record for recalls for six years of production. What does J.D. Powers have to say about that?"

Nothing because Toyota holds the record for recalls, not Ford. There have been more Toyotas recalled in 2 years (14 million) than the entire number of Focuses that were ever built.

5th Apr 2011, 13:37

Listen - ALL carmakers have had recalls. Big whoop. Truth be known the big 3 have had far more recalls than Toyota, yet since everyone is out to "prove" that Toyotas are bad, they are all focusing on these latest recalls.

None of it matters anyway. I and most everyone else I know that owns a Toyota seldom, if ever, has any problems with them. If anyone thinks we're changing our minds, given that these cars and trucks have given us decades of trouble-free service, based on a few recalls, they are very much mistaken. Why change from a superior product, to one that has had a history of spotty reliability?

Either way - this back and forth foreign versus domestic argument is totally worthless. Enough is enough. As I said - we are not going to change our minds. Period. End of story.

5th Apr 2011, 18:05

My argument was that Ford's track record with small cars is terrible compared to Toyota. That's why the fact the Focus was one of the most glitch ridden cars ever made is relevant. It did set a record for recalls long before Toyota's name was ever mentioned. Toyota's small cars, including the Tercel, Paseo, Echo, and Yaris were NOT affected by any recalls.

5th Apr 2011, 19:40

Speak for yourself. I've been loyal to Toyota and Honda for decades now. I've never had any problems with any of their cars, but I love the look of the new Chrysler line-up. I don't care what anyone says, when it comes to the domestic vehicles I've owned, the only manufacturer that has never let me down is Chrysler.

6th Apr 2011, 10:43

Check your facts on the Toyota recalls. The Yaris has had two recalls in the United States, 09V223000 and 09V031000. The Echo was recalled on 06V266000, and I found 5 different recalls on the Tercel over its long model life. The only Toyota model on your list that doesn't appear to have been recalled is the Paseo.

6th Apr 2011, 13:30

Yes, and only a tiny handful of Paseos were ever built. The truth is that domestic makers have always issued VOLUNTARY recalls for ALL problems (not just safety related issues), while Japanese car makers until recently have only issued recalls under threat of legal action for safety related issues. Naturally domestic makers will have a lot of recalls, because they are thinking of the customer and not doing it under threat of legal action by a Grand Jury (as Toyota has been forced to do three times in the past two years). Even at that, Toyota STILL has the highest number of recalls (14,000,000+) of any car maker in history.

6th Apr 2011, 20:07

What I meant was that the cars I listed were not affected by Toyota's recent recall fiasco. That's a fact. The few recalls you mentioned are nothing compared to Ford's recall history. They have a long history of screwing up cars many times over before they get them right. I've read a few posts that claim it is actually Ford that holds the record for recalls, even with Toyota's recent screw-up. I don't know if it's a fact, but I wouldn't doubt it. Even the Fiesta is showing transmission problems already.

7th Apr 2011, 12:21

My 1996 Tacoma was recalled in 1996 for an issue with one of the front suspension brackets. So Toyota has had voluntary recalls for a long time.

Secondly, Domestic automakers still have the lion's share of recalls over the years. The question is will this number slow or recede? Time will tell. Cars are machines. Machines are imperfect.

7th Apr 2011, 15:31

Domestic automakers also had the lions share of the market over the years. Would it not make sense that producing a higher number of units would result in a higher number of recalls? The percentage of defective units is more important than the number of units themselves when assessing quality control.

7th Apr 2011, 17:56

I believe more than a 'handful' of Paseos were sold. It was sold in the U.S. from 1991-1997, and in Canada from 91-99. It was also sold outside of North America. It shares its components with the very reliable Tercel, and some other models. The notion that Toyota has never issued voluntary recalls is nonsense.

Oh, and the notion that Ford is the Honest Abe of carmakers, who have never done anything wrong or under force, or deceived customers is very far fetched. Yeah right, Ford and ALL domestic automakers ALWAYS do the right thing. That's about as believable as those people who truly believe that every Toyota dating back to 1991 is unsafe, and subject to recall.

7th Apr 2011, 21:21

"My 1996 Tacoma was recalled in 1996 for an issue with one of the front suspension brackets"

This is a major safety issue. Law requires these kinds of recalls.

22nd Apr 2011, 18:32

Remember when Ford killed and burned people with their Pintos and got sued for millions?

23rd Apr 2011, 15:06

Very true. People seem to think it was a while ago, so it doesn't matter. Then there was GM, who built the unsafe Corvair. I guess that doesn't matter anymore either.

9th Jan 2012, 19:13

There are some small cars that have a better crash safety rating than some large cars. Just because a car is small, doesn't mean it isn't safe. The Pontiac Fiero is surrounded by a steel frame, and is safer than a larger car that doesn't have the re-enforcement of steel surrounding the cabin.

29th Oct 2017, 08:56

Ahh... you might wanna compare the crash test numbers for the Ford F150 versus the substantially smaller Mini Cooper then. I owned a Ford F350 at the time and was annoyed that the Mini did a better job of protecting the driver in an accident. Of course, I'm sure both are safer than the VW Beetles I used to drive around in... so I don't lose much sleep over today's cars when it comes to safety.

29th Oct 2017, 16:01

And pick up trucks use to have dangerous side fill gas tanks. Manufacturers learn and change designs. I probably owned 75 or more GM cars, many new. Never a Corvair. I won’t throw the whole line up under the bus. By the way, is this the same Toyota Truck guy that recently bought a GM car? We drove a rental Yaris, which then remained mostly parked til we returned it to the airport. Got to be the worst car I have ever been in. Should have just used Uber.

27th Jan 2020, 14:59

"The Honda Civic, Mini Cooper, Scion TC and XB, Toyota Corolla, Kia Forte, Ford Fiesta, and Chevy Cruze all share the exact same IIHS safety ratings as the Ford Explorer, Jeep Grande Cherokee, and Ford Fusion."

This is exactly the big problem with these crash tests against a fixed barrier. Most people did study some physics in school; they should remember that when impacting against a fixed obstacle, the vehicle will have to absorb only the amount of energy given by its vehicle mass (assuming all cars are crashed at same speed, this cancels out the speed factor in the energy calculation). So a Jeep Grand Cherokee will have to absorb the energy of its mass of around 4500lbs, while the Mini Cooper will have to absorb the energy of its mass of 3500lbs. But let's see what happens when a Mini crashes head on with a Jeep. The total mass is then 8000lbs, divided by 2: each car has to stand the energy corresponding with a 4000lbs mass. The Jeep will do better than in the crash tests, while the Mini will do worse. The only moment when the crash tests represent real life, is when cars crash against another car of the same weight.

This video shows perfectly what happens when a 'safe' small car is crashed against a larger car. Note that both the Yaris and the Camry are 2009 models, so of the exact same year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHiYSAenanM

By all means, NHTSA must start crash testing small cars against larger sedan cars (or against a standard weight moving barrier), to force car makers to improve the safety of the small cars.