4th Jan 2009, 05:16
"No 20-year-old vehicle can be realistically compared to a new one."
A car that is running after 20 years old can easily be compared to cars today, especially when the 20 year old is of better quality and more dependable.
"Japanese vehicles have plummeted like a rock in quality in the past decade (though my 80's imports were far from reliable)."
Not true once again. The only so-called Japanese vehicles that have plummeted like a rock as far as reliability is concerned are certain American manufactured "imports." Otherwise, quality is as strong as ever - constantly improving.
"Newer domestics long ago surpassed the overall reliability and value per dollar of imports."
Domestics still lag as far as dependability, quality and longevity are concerned. They are cheaper and it shows during the term of ownership. You get what you pay for. Our imports have lasted far longer periods without repairs that our domestics ever have.
Ex. 1987 Nissan Maxima SE (retired with 363K miles), NO major repairs other than timing belt, alignment, brakes. This was in 20 years of ownership as a daily driver.
2004 Honda Accord LX (59K miles), absolutely NO problems (American built with a #1 in VIN). Japanese-made models are said to be even more dependable.
2004 Nissan Sentra 2.0 S (115K miles), NO problems other than tune-up recently, and new tires.
Domestics: rented 2008 Chevy Cobalt when '87 Maxima totalled. The Cobalt was cheaply made, too much plastic in interior, not so great gas mileage.
2001 GMC Sierra pickup (84K miles), constant computer problems, fuel gauge defective, mud sling in engine.
GMC Sonoma p/u (225K miles), too many problems to list, an entire inventory of problems. Would not drive a domestic if my life depended on it.
"While driving home from a restaurant today (in our domestic car) we actually saw a mid 80's Toyota. My wife, who is also very much a car enthusiast, commented on how odd it was to see a 25+ year old Japanese car. That is really pretty rare here, while 30-year-old domestics (especially Ford and GM trucks) are present in huge numbers. My wife said "Well, I guess that says something about Japanese cars". I agree."
25 years ago imported vehicles were fairly new on these shores. Toyota today manufactures as many Camries altogether in a year as the same number of Japanese imports that were actually on the roads then. Besides, you contradict yourself. You say that cars 20 years ago can't be compared to those of today, but in the same breath say that cars 25 years old says something about Japanese makes because many are retired. Make up your mind.
"Our 1984 and 1990 Japanese imports have been rusting in a junkyard for well over a decade now."
I can imagine why. You're probably one of those who believe the myth that, "once you buy an import, you'll never have problems out of a car again. Honda, Toyota and Nissan vehicles are maintenance/problem free." That statement is just what it is, a myth. These cars can be the most trouble-free on the road and will take care of you if you take care of them. On the other hand, if you buy into the myths then you will have a pile of problems on your hands. These vehicles come with a service manual that is to be followed. If scheduled maintenance is performed, the car will last many years with little to no problems at all. It's no wonder why your imports have now been in the junkyard for more than a decade. Some drivers shouldn't buy imports and apparently, you're one of them.
3rd Jan 2009, 11:27
"No 20-year-old vehicle can be realistically compared to a new one. Japanese vehicles have plummeted like a rock in quality in the past decade (though my 80's imports were far from reliable). Newer domestics long ago surpassed the overall reliability and value per dollar of imports."
Domestic vehicles are still for the large part sub-par in the quality department. I would be hard pressed spending my money on one. Any 20 year old vehicle that is running and on the road can compare to a new one. My mother's 2004 Accord has had not ONE problem other than tires, oil changes. Our 1995 Nissan pickup has 211K miles and still begging for more. Can't say the same about my dad's 2001 GMC Sierra pickup, which has been in the service department numerous times for weird and nagging problems.
I had my 20 year old car on the road as a daily driver until it was t-boned by a 16-year old driver. That car has been FAR more reliable than ANY American car I have owned. I'm almost terrified even to think of buying American again. I was given a top trim level Chevy Cobalt to drive. The hard, brittle plastic on the dash, cheap feeling leather, small seating capacity and not-so-great fuel economy left me more solid in my decision to not buy American and stick with something designed to provide long-term quality and dependability. Not to mention the resale value of domestics which plummets to nothing in only a couple of years.
The only Japanese vehicles falling in quality are those that are manufactured in the U.S. by people who are in it only for the pay. That is why the Big 3 has been hurting, they are paid too much and take too little pride in their work. If they stopped just "throwing something together" they would be in a far more competitive position to weather a crisis. Stop short-changing people, Ford, GM, Chrysler! Domestics still have many miles to go in the quality and reliability department. When they catch up, I MAY consider them. Until then, I'll stick with Nissan.
"While driving home from a restaurant today (in our domestic car) we actually saw a mid 80's Toyota. My wife, who is also very much a car enthusiast, commented on how odd it was to see a 25+ year old Japanese car."
They probably are more rare here because production and sales were really just taking off in the 1980's, people were skeptical. Not nearly as many Japanese cars were made then as there are today. Toyota probably sales nearly as many Camry's each year as there were models being sold altogether (Honda, Nissan, Toyota) in the U.S. then.
"That is really pretty rare here, while 30-year-old domestics (especially Ford and GM trucks) are present in huge numbers.'
Yes, they are still present, still gas guzzlers, still polluting our air and still being patched up to be put on the road when they should be retired. The trucks were probably the only reliable domestic vehicles made. My grandmother's 1985 Pontiac Bonneville actually used to die on the middle of the highway for no apparent reason, and she bought it brand new! Yes, she maintained and babied the vehicle then as she does with her cars today.
"My wife said "Well, I guess that says something about Japanese cars". I agree. Our 1984 and 1990 Japanese imports have been rusting in a junkyard for well over a decade now."
My 1987 car had not a single speck of rust on it, not a blemish, stain or spot anywhere in the interior and crank every time the key turned. My sister's 1988 Nissan Maxima was driven daily for 15 years until she gave it to her teenage driver who took it to college and put her all the way through. Now my sister has the car back and uses it primarily for trips around town, giving her no problems at all other than burning a little more oil than desired.
You and your wife obviously bought into the myth that "imports solve all your problems. You'll never have to do any maintenance at all on it." That is not true, sir. Like any car, if not maintained well, will end up in the junkyard like yours have. Imports are simple, you take care of them, they'll take care of you. That is not the case with domestics. No matter how well you try to take care of it, it soon will fall apart before your eyes. Take it from a skeptic to a now convinced believer that imports are far better cars than domestics. Our next car will be the new Nissan Maxima. We plan on buying it in the summer of 2010 or early 2011!