17th Mar 2009, 10:24

Very well, how about let's put this to rest and actually read these articles.

Per the report from JD power short term reliability ratings: Problems per vehicle by brand:

Lexus: 120

Mercury: 151

Cadillac: 155

Toyota: 159

Acura: 160

Buick: 163

BMW: 164

Lincoln:165

Honda: 177

Ford: 204

Infiniti: 204

Audi: 207

Chrysler: 229

Chevrolet: 239

In that regard, Toyota, Honda and their luxury entries are ahead of Ford. Not by a huge margin, which definitely shows some improvement, but still by enough to show a clear winner. Mercury also did quite well, which isn't surprising given 50% of their lineup are re-badged Mazdas. I will give kudos to Cadillac, who for once builds a halfway decent car and will hopefully do better if GM survives.

But the problem with this report again is that it is a short term report. The test was for a 3 year time period. Most people I know keep cars for at least 10-12 years, and if you're going to have problems with a car, it tends to be once the car starts to age. This is where the importance of long term reliability comes in, which in my opinion is a lot more telling in regards to overall quality.

Consumer reports actually does long term reliability ratings with more comprehensive testing of electrical and mechanical systems. Their findings were:

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=435712

In other words, much of what has already been said before, which is that overall, Honda and Toyota makes a better product than Ford, GM, and definitely Chrysler. Of course some of Ford's products do well competing against the Japanese automakers, but as the report said, it is really hit and miss, which is exactly the problem domestic automakers have had for decades. You might get a "good" one but you're just as likely to get junk as well.

So to summarize, why would a consumer make a dicey decision buying a product that has a good chance of being faulty when they can buy another brand that has a significantly better chance of being good? Like I've told many people, I've owned nothing but Toyotas and have had no problems. Hence the no amount of reports showing mediocre performance and reliability from the big three compels me to make a switch when I already have my own "proof".

17th Mar 2009, 21:28

Very true. Over the years we have owned a number of "worse than average" or "much worse than average" vehicles. One of these made over 300,000 miles with virtually no problems. One made 277,000 miles with ZERO problems, and one made 240,000 miles with two timing belts and one heater hose replaced.

The worst nightmares we had were a Mazda (that was built in Japan before Ford took over and improved the quality) and a (Heaven forbid!!) HONDA CIVIC!!

We currently own an 8-year old and 6-year-old GM vehicle, neither of which has had a single issue beyond one burned out light bulb. We also own a 2006 and 2007 Ford and they are both flawless. I'm a mechanic and do all my own servicing and any repairs required (which on domestics has been virtually ZERO). The two worst built cars I have ever worked on were the much-ballyhooed Honda and Mazda.

Your observations about Consumer Reports are certainly very appropriate. I found it VERY INTERESTING that in the October 2007 issue of CR they did a story on "Long Lasting Vehicles". On the COVER was a picture of (what else??) a HONDA CIVIC!! Ironically in the ACTUAL ARTICLE it turned out the Civic had the LOWEST mileage of any vehicle in the entire article. The one with the HIGHEST MILEAGE was a FORD!!! (with 488,000 miles). No doubt many people glanced at the COVER and saw a Civic under a headline about "high mileage cars") and were misled. This is VERY typical of so many publications. I also noticed that under the title "The Best and Worst Cars of 2009" CR very prominently displayed a FORD FUSION (which has their HIGHEST rating) directly under the word "Worst". This sort of thing is very misleading, and I think 100% deliberate.

When it comes to broken down cars on the side of the road, I drive 20 miles one-way to my office on the freeway, and over the course of the past 20 years I've seen AT LEAST 20 times more Japanese vehicles than domestics waiting to be towed. Just yesterday on a THREE MILE STRETCH I saw 2: A Nissan Maxima and a Toyota Camry. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a broken down domestic.