8th Jun 2011, 17:29
I also don't understand JD powers ratings either; Toyota at 21 and Lexus first? It's the same junk made by the same company!! You are right it makes no sense. I had a bad experience with Toyota, therefore I have every god given right to call their vehicles junk.
8th Jun 2011, 18:14
It is always amazing how sources are cited as the gospel when they support the import myth, but "Worthless" "Flawed" or "inaccurate" when a domestic is ranked high. When a survey is based on actual problems with the cars, as J.D. Powers' rating are, they are NOT opinion. They are FACT.
As of now (May 2011 actually), Ford has the fewest problems of any car sold over the last three years (Lincoln). The long-term survey is based on cars in service for 3 years. The "Lexus is tops" myth just keeps going, but it has not been the "best" since 2008. Even before that, Lexus traded places every year or two with Buick.
The 21st place rating for Toyota is based, again, on actual problems with the cars, not opinion. Toyota owners had more problems than owners of 20 other brands. No "opinion" there, just cold, hard facts.
If you want to discuss "opinion", you can refer to Consumer Reports, which ranked the 2007 Camry as a "best buy", then had to retract their rating when the car proved to be riddled with problems. The equivalent of an apology was offered to readers for basing the rating on "opinion". So there you have your "opinion". They gave the rating based on what they THOUGHT the car was. Hardly an objective way to determine quality.
With regard to recalls, people still fail to realize that domestic car makers voluntarily recall their cars for ANY problem, whereas Japanese makers virtually never recall a car unless forced to. Look at the THREE Grand Jury subpoenas served to force Toyota to acknowledge their problems. So of course domestics (up until the Toyota melt-down) had more recalls. I had a Ford with over 105,000 miles recalled for a piece of plastic trim that might deform in the hot Sun (and mine had NOT). Hardly a safety issue at all, but Ford cared enough about its customers to offer to repair a piece of trim on an 8-year-old car at no cost. That is unimaginable with any import except Rolls Royce.
There is not a shred of evidence indicating that Ford or GM are in any way less reliable than imports. Even a decade ago, actual repair data indicated at most a degree of problem with domestics that were measured in tenths of a percent more than the top-rated imports. Ford now ranks higher than all imports, and GM is ranked higher than Toyota. The 50 mpg Cruze Eco gets the best gas mileage of any non-hybrid on Earth (except for the Smart golf cart). The 44 mpg Focus isn't far behind. Yes, GM builds gas-guzzling SUV's. That's our fault. We keep demanding them. You can't fault a company for building what sells.
And with regard to what sells, GM outsold Toyota more than 2 to 1 in the U.S. in May. Ford sold nearly twice as many cars as Toyota Even Chrysler outsold them. Honda sold nowhere near as many cars as any U.S. maker, so Honda and Toyota are hardly "burying" domestic auto makers. They never have. At present GM is on its way (WELL on its way) to reclaiming the position as the WORLD'S best-selling vehicles, not just in the U.S.
So cite all the "opinions" you can find. The facts are that the truth is out, and even a huge influx of ad dollars won't erase the fact that imports now have more actual, reported and documented problems than domestics, and have since 2008.
9th Jun 2011, 13:08
"With regard to recalls, people still fail to realize that domestic car makers voluntarily recall their cars for ANY problem"
You really only believe what you want to believe. So GM, Ford, and Chrysler have recalled their, intake, transmission, electrical, rotten subframe problems? Is that why there is a law-suit filed against GM for their cheap plastic intakes? Your argument is pointless, as you only connect with your own version of stories.
9th Jun 2011, 13:57
Not a shred of evidence? Please. The only reason this argument exists is because Toyota, Honda, and Nissan came to the US in the 70's and built a consumer base due to now-universally renown quality and reliability. It's not just in the US, in Europe, Asia and the Americas their products receive very high marks. Those are the facts. The entire time I was growing up in the 80's and 90's and even for the most part today Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have received overwhelmingly high marks in quality and reliability. Why even go there? Everyone knows Toyota makes a good product.
Lastly - AGAIN: THE ONLY REASON TOYOTA, HONDA, AND NISSAN HAD LOW SALES IN MAY WAS BECAUSE OF A TSUNAMI. Get it? It's not because suddenly people had a change of heart. So we can put that notion to rest now.
Those that keep going on and on about "Superior" domestic products lost the argument years ago, and what's more - even they know it. All anyone has to do is simply pull up reviews from just about any domestic car on this and other site, and count the number of dissatisfied customers. If they really and truly made such "superior" "Award-Winning" products, then how come such a huge number of reviews for them are negative? There's the proof of reality.
9th Jun 2011, 16:57
I was not aware of a lawsuit against GM for the intake manifold. Ford had one, are you sure your facts are straight?
10th Jun 2011, 08:23
I see a lot of people referring to surveys where Ford, GM outperforms Toyota in the quality department. Where are these, and can someone provide a link, because I fail to find any sources that ranks Ford, GM over Toyota in overall rankings. Ford have some single models, for single production years that can rival some of the Toyota models, whereas GM is way, way down the list.
I saw Ford scored well overall on the JD Power IQS (impressions and quality of the 3 first months) for 2011, whereas the VDS (the vehicle dependability study is for 3 years), neither Ford or GM had top scores.
I agree that Ford is doing quite well having many desirable models that sells well, and the quality is improving. Good for Ford and Ford owners! But why do a lot of people on sites like this need to thrash talk Toyotas?
8th Jun 2011, 16:35
I live in Canada, and have NEVER thought of cars built in the U.S. as outsourced. Too bad our American neighbours don't think the same thing toward us. I read many angry comments about how auto jobs have been outsourced to Canada. We've been building cars in Canada from GM, Chrysler, Honda, and Toyota for a long time. There were many auto industry jobs lost in the 2008 crash. We were hurt just like the U.S.
I think from now on I will think of all cars built in the U.S. as outsourced, and harming Canadian jobs. I want a Corolla for my next car. My father's has been extremely reliable. I don't think anyone can truly claim that for the Cruze. It's been in North America for a grand total of six months.