2nd Dec 2009, 13:44
"I could write about countless other examples, but you get the point I am sure..."
I am not so sure that the person (or people) you are referring to would ever acknowledge getting any point, unless it was one that was in total agreement with his/her argument.
Like everything else, it seems that when things don't go well, far too many people need to find a scapegoat. The "patriots" who are scapegoating the "import" owners, are just plain wrong, in my book.
I think it is very worrisome that we have people labeling import owners "unpatriotic" and "unconcerned" about their fellow Americans. How anyone can dare to judge their neighbor based on the car that they drive is beyond my comprehension.
3rd Dec 2009, 12:47
Here we go again with the old "ends justifies the means" argument. So the 10's of thousands of people that will be out of work or that are already out of work due to outsourcing of jobs is just no big deal to you? Ford should have had a better plan so they WOULDN'T have to go that route from the start. THAT IS MY POINT!!
Also, they are still continuing this trend, therefore they will be axing many more of those "90%" jobs soon. Even a basic highschool student can see that this will catch up with the U.S. workers that haven't already lost their jobs from Fords incompetence.
You still are avoiding the question though. Why suddenly after 30 years is buying a Honda or a Toyota a threat? Also did you read that article I pasted the link to? Try a different viewpoint once in awhile and see that there is more than one side to this story of the domestic car companies. They DO NOT care about you or I unless they are making a profit. Jobs will continue to be lost to foreign factories as this is the ONLY way they know how to save themselves. Pretty pathetic really.
3rd Dec 2009, 12:52
You are right. It is a lost cause to get some people to see anything beyond their front yard or tomorrow. I can't believe people put so much faith into companies that are run so poorly and then defend every move these companies make with the old "well they provide this many jobs so who cares how incompetent they are." It is really no surprise that the U.S. is in the shape it is in with these people who blindly support this type of behavior. Sad really!!
3rd Dec 2009, 14:57
13:40
I would buy a Toyota just to tick you off (and I would be helping an American autoworker, an American salesperson, an American owner of a Toyota dealership, as well as paying more in taxes to my city & state).
3rd Dec 2009, 20:21
I suppose the thousands put out of work by people who buy Hondas and Toyotas find their situation a little "worrisome" as well.
3rd Dec 2009, 20:29
As a general rule, this is true. However the area where we live (which tends to be more patriotic) has so many people joining the "buy from AMERICAN industry" groups and trading in imports so fast that dealers here simply are overwhelmed with the number of incoming imports and have no choice but to try to sell them on their own lots. About 80% of those buying new GM and Ford cars here are trading in Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans. There are currently ZERO used Fusions on our local Ford lot. There are 6 Japanese imports.
4th Dec 2009, 10:15
What is worrisome is that you apparently define "patriotism" by the make of car someone drives.
4th Dec 2009, 10:19
Where do you live that is so much more "patriotic"? It must be far away from any town where Ford and GM have closed plants and moved them to Mexico and Canada huh? 80% of people buying Ford and GM cars are trading imports in? Where did you get that information from? That's an interesting claim that I find really hard to believe.
4th Dec 2009, 10:28
Okay, why are thousands put out of work by people who buy Hondas and Toyotas? No one will explain the cause of this, yet they keep going on about it. Please tell me why you feel these people are the problem, and it is not the domestic car companies and their inability to run a competitive business. Come on... justify your argument. Domestic car companies have been competing with these same import manufacturers for decades, yet now their customers are driving people out of work all of the sudden.
Sounds like this is a bigger problem than just buying an import car. Why blame consumers for wanting better products when you SHOULD be blaming the poorly run domestic car companies for creating their own worst case scenario.
Please stop posting on these type of sites, and spend time writing letters to the CEO's of Ford, GM and Chrysler, asking them why they have failed so miserably, and created an auto industry in the U.S. that is so unstable that the whole country could fall apart if it fails.
4th Dec 2009, 10:44
Probably no more or no less worried by the thousands upon thousands of U.S. Autoworkers put out of work because the American Automakers outsourced their jobs to new plants that they built in Canada & Mexico.
4th Dec 2009, 11:00
What, you don't want to buy a Fusion and support your "patriotic" Mexican worker??
13:40 whoever they are, obviously doesn't have any family or friends that have been sacked by Ford in favor of Mexican plants and outsourced labor. They think that because they still have something to offer in the preservation of 14 million jobs (which is highly inflated) that they have a right to outsource labor and take away U.S. jobs. It would be interesting to see the level of support they have for Ford when they outsource more labor than they provide in the U.S. It probably will happen as it has been highly successful avenue for them in building their one competing car, the Fusion. Since profits come before people what would their next step be?
4th Dec 2009, 17:33
Outsourcing by both GM and Ford has allowed them to save MORE U.S. jobs by cutting overall costs and keeping more plants and jobbers open HERE than the total number of Canadian and Mexican workers COMBINED. In addition, unlike U.S. Honda and Toyota plants that pay no taxes, offer no benefits and send all their profits to Japan, domestic companies re-invest most of THEIR profits HERE.
5th Dec 2009, 06:02
And some of the outsourced models came as a result of flooding into our country by cheap imports. The same thing is happening with other products; go where the cheap labor is and reduce America down to one shift plus downsize. I will spend more and buy not to get the cheapest prices. When import production was low, our quality of life was better. A lot of people are out of work. Why even consider giving one order away? If you have an issue, buy a car totally built here. I drove to Kentucky, you can order and pick up a new GM right out of the plant and drive home. You still buy from a dealer and get supervised ability to assemble a couple parts yourself as it goes down the line. The profits do not flow back to Japan either. Maybe Japan should pay back or refuse tax breaks we should quit doing.
2nd Dec 2009, 13:40
1) Outsourcing the Fusion SAVED THOUSANDS of AMERICAN jobs by keeping Ford in a better financial situation to make profits. It enabled them to keep open plants in the U.S. A very basic course in even high school economics can clearly explain this. They approach the subject a bit more objectively than Honda and Toyota sales brochures.
2) Fusion is hardly Ford's "ONLY" competitive car. They have as many "recommended buys" as Toyota, such as Mustang, Fusion, all the SUV's, the Taurus, the F-150 and Focus. J.D. Powers ranks the Mustang "Best in class" in a category that includes the Toyota Solara. Ford has the same overall reliability rating across the board as Toyota, and has just as many "Recommended buys".